Luanda - The Ambassador of Turkey in Angola Alp Ay stated in Luanda that the cooperation relations between the two countries have reached a level of "perfection", following reciprocal visits of the Turkish President, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, and his Angolan counterpart, João Lourenço.
(By Catarina da Silva)
In an interview to Angop, specifically on the state of relations between the two countries, and the cooperation with Africa in general, the diplomat expressed his satisfaction with the level reached in bilateral contacts, adding that, for this reason, Turkey attaches significant importance to the visit of President João Lourenço, carried out in July 2021.
He referred to the visit of the Angolan Head of State to Turkey as a successful one, which, he said, motivated Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to return it three months later.
In his opinion, the mutual visits of the Heads of State resulted in the signing of more than 20 protocols in different areas of cooperation, namely in the sectors of Education, Industry, Defense, Justice, Agriculture, Culture, Sports, and Commerce, among others.
"Today, I can say that we are strategic partners of Angola and there is a political will to strengthen this cooperation even more", he stressed.
Diplomatic relations between Angola and Turkey date back to 1980 and are supported by cooperation agreements covering sectors such as Education, Fisheries, Science and Technology, Oil and Gas, Industry and Agriculture.
Turkey is an Eurasian country that occupies the entire Anatolian peninsula (Asia Minor), in the extreme west of Asia, and extends through Eastern Thrace (also known as Rumelia) in Southeast Europe.
ANGOP - Mr Ambassador, how do you characterize Turkey in political, economic and social terms?
Alp Ay (A.A) - First of all, I would like to emphasise that Turkey is a global and regional player. For example, our President recently had meetings with his counterparts in Russia, Iran and the United States. As far as I know, there are currently not many countries that can do that.
Today, Turkey occupies a position of mediator, which tries to balance the most burning conflicts at the world stage and the region, in particular. We believe that we have the competence for it.
Another example I would like to cite is that Turkey is part of the table of talks between the United Nations (UN), the United States, Russia and Ukraine, which aims to find a way to transport agricultural goods from Ukraine.
Turkey has hosted, for more than 10 years, the largest number of refugees in the world. We are members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), of the European Council, of Asian organizations, as well as observer-members of the Community of Portuguese Speaking Countries (CPLP).
It has somewhat good relations with all countries, but naturally it is not always a "paradise". Our geographical position is not easy. In the south, we have, for a few years now, the crisis in Syria and with another neighbor, Iraq, although the situation is more controlled now.
Our other neighbors are Iran, Azerbaijan and Armenia, which also still have tensions. And from the sea, we are friends with the Russian Federation. In this, our external relations are summarized.
Internally, Turkey has been dealing with the issue of Covid-19, which happens, in the same way, with other countries. Our country, economically, has also felt the negative effects of this pandemic and the conflict between Russia and Ukraine. We believe that the world ends up suffering, in a significant way, especially with the impact on the price of wheat.
With this situation, Turkey has also been working to minimize this negative impact. We, like Angola, know very well the meaning of the word solidarity and, as an example, we managed to hold the Turkey-Africa Summit, which ended up giving us the prerogative to strengthen cooperation with several African countries.
ANGOP - When do you think negotiations for Turkey's full membership to the European Union should be resumed?
A.A - As far as I know, some years ago these negotiations were frozen. But I can explain: Turkey has been a candidate for decades to join the European Union (EU), and that strategic objective, from my country's perspective, has not changed. However, I believe that the EU should look where it wants to go.
We must look at this adhesion from two perspectives: the first is the technical side (technical issues), which we think should continue, and the second concerns the political issue. I think there must be political will on both sides.
We believe that in the EU there are some countries whose fundamentalisms block Turkey. We have sent the message to the EU that the world has changed.
Needs and powers are changing and this should not be remain in the custody of some member states.
The process is still on the table, and we believe that time will show us how to take the subsequent steps.
ANGOP - What is your opinion on the expansion of NATO?
A.A - I would like to answer this question with an example: let's imagine a family in a house. Members of this family, by nature, defend their home. Whoever lives in this house is protected by the whole family.
Think of a street that has family houses, the members will protect their own house and the residents of that street. Naturally, they must trust other families who live on that street and that trust cannot be summed up in a cooperation trust, there must be a "life or death" trust.
This, in fact, is what an alliance for home security is. The allies will protect their own members and some will die in the process.
Why do I cite this example? Because NATO is this kind of street and we believe that with this characteristic of the organization, it is the kind of security that the world needs.
Turkey has always been an important member of NATO, especially given the strength of its armed forces and its geographical position. As far as enlargement is concerned, in having other members on our street, we should, in principle, be satisfied because the street will be enriched.
Therefore, newcomers must have full trust, as this is not economic cooperation. If the newcomer protects a thief who robbed me some time ago, naturally I
will not have complete trust in this newcomer.
Of course, we are happy with NATO enlargement, but among those who have been there longer, there must be complete confidence in the newcomers. We believe and agree with the entry of new members and there should be no major concerns.
As it is not an economic organization, the entry must have the consent of all members. We think that, since we agree to respect the general principles, there should not be any major concerns, either inside or outside the organization.
ANGOP - What are Turkey's challenges in the current international economic context, marked by the political crisis between Russia and Ukraine?
A.A - The situation is not easy. There is an attack from one country to another, for this or that reason. Turkey has always maintained good relations with both countries. Since the beginning of the crisis, our position has always been to make the parties sit at the table and talk.
Naturally, this conflict affects the security lines of the countries of Europe and has a dramatic consequence in humanitarian terms. All these situations, of course, have negative effects from an economic point of view.
We must look at history. It shows us that, in case of conflict, neither party wins. In these situations, we think we should talk.
ANGOP - What policies/plans do you have to help Africa's development?
A.A - Turkey, as a partner of Africa, has outlined projects of five to 10 years, taking care that they are aligned with the strategic plan of the African Union (AU). Just like our African partners, we don't like to talk and then do nothing.
There are solid projects, especially with regard to the construction of infrastructure, from hospital units, transport lines, electricity, among others. We are one of the countries that basically have embassies in almost the entire African continent.
There are approximately 46 diplomatic representations in Africa. Along with the African Union, we have tried to complement each other especially from the point of view of bilateral relations.
We have been working in the field of education and looking to see how we can assist each other, and this is being followed up on the ground by the Governments and the AU.
As AU partners, we believe in a strong regional organization and a solid partnership. To that end, we will try to help the structures of that organization and, naturally, coordinate our cooperation policies with it.
ANGOP - How do you see conflicts in Africa? In your opinion, what are the reasons for them and solutions?
A.A - Today, Africa is, unfortunately, trying to end several burning conflicts, while working to prevent the ones that can happen. With its centuries-old traditions, beauty and potential, this great continent does not deserve this situation. I believe that the physical and psychological remnants of the colonial period are the main causes of conflicts in Africa.
Turkey has always been an advocate of the principle of "African solutions to African problems". So we have always tried, are trying and will continue to try to support African efforts and initiatives to end conflicts for the good of African peoples.
No one can underestimate the potential that exists on this continent and its people, whether economic, political or social. Africa has all the tools it needs to overcome these challenges.
The strategic partnership between Turkey and the AU is based on this perspective. At this point, I must underline how we see and follow Angola's position in this regard.
Today, the Angolan people should be proud of the fact that their country is an important mediator/facilitator in conflicts on the African continent.
Turkey will always support forms of conflict resolution based on these
principles.
ANGOP - How do you assess the current state of cooperation relations between Turkey and Angola?
A.A - The cooperation relations between Turkey and Angola are perfect. I arrived at the Luanda Embassy in January 2019 and at that time there was already a political will on both sides to develop them.
When I looked at the scenario, we only had one agreement. We didn't have a high-level visit, but fortunately, there is political will. For that reason, we attach full importance to the visit of President João Lourenço to Turkey in July 2021. The visit was a great success. For that reason, three months later, the President of Turkey came to Angola.
Naturally, on both visits, many ministers were involved. In the end, my President and his Angolan counterpart instructed us (ambassadors) to visit each other. In that vein, ministers should do the same and do the work on the ground.
In the framework of these visits, we have as a result over 20 protocol agreements signed between the two countries.
Currently, we have visits from ministers and secretaries of state in different areas to talk about major industrial projects of Turkey in Angola, education, defense, among others. We have been working very honestly to strengthen this relationship.
Today, I can say that we are strategic partners and there is a political will to further strengthen this partnership. Even in that period, we managed to ensure that there were direct flights between Turkey and Angola, which had positive effects in several aspects.
We are following the process of general elections in Angola and we believe that, whatever the results, Turkey will be, like Angola, interested in continuing this friendly relationship.
ANGOP - In October 2021, the two countries signed agreements in the fields of Mutual Assistance in Customs, Education, Agriculture, Industry, Commerce, Culture and Tourism. Which of these areas requires improvement or reinforcement?
A.A - Let me share something with you. For example, there is a reciprocal investment protection agreement. This agreement gives security to the private sector, so that entrepreneurs feel that their governments are aligned. We had two memoranda in the mining sector, in addition to joint projects being developed in various economic sectors.
We also have agreements in the field of Education and Health, which will help us to work together on the ground. We are also working with the Ministries of Defense, Interior, Former Combatants, among others.
These agreements show us the strategic position of the two countries, based on trust. We also have agreements in the agriculture sector, which will be my priority after the elections on 24 August.
We are also working with other sectors, such as Justice and Human Rights, Economy and customs issues that will facilitate trade between our countries.
There is even an agreement on the prevention of double taxation. All these legal mechanisms that were signed have contributed to the sectors working more closely.
ANGOP - Education is one of the sectors that drive and sustain the development of any nation. Could you detail the extent of cooperation in this area between the two countries?
A.A - We started granting scholarships even before government agreements existed. I think this process started in 2012/2013.
There are two agreements for granting scholarships for higher education, which will regulate and reinforce their attribution. Although there is a political will, we believe, like Angola, that we have a structure.
ANGOP - Do you know the number of Angolan students undergoing training in Turkey and in which areas they specialize?
A.A - Unfortunately, the number of students is still not very expressive. We have an annual scholarship program for bachelor's, master's and doctoral degrees. Every year, 10 Angolan students are sent to Turkey, through an application process. We do not limit the training areas.
It is the students who choose and, as a result of their choices, we send them to our country.
The program of sending 10 scholarship holders per year is not related to the signed agreements. As part of these scholarships, students have the option of learning Turkish for one year free of charge, and of course, we offer the possibility to choose the university, of which their language of choice is English.
We also have to work to overcome the Portuguese language barrier. We attach importance to it, as we are also observer-members of the CPLP.
As an example, we are studying the possibility of introducing the Portuguese language course in Turkish universities and in Angola the teaching of the Turkish language. There is still much work to be done.
In fact, we started from scratch. For this reason, I love my country very much, I love Angola and we will do everything as partners.
When I refer to agreements, I must say that partnership projects are also being studied between the Turkish News Agency, Anatoli, and ANGOP, between Turkish Television and Angolan Public Television and between Turkey's and Angola's Public Broadcasting Radio stations.
ANGOP - Turkey has interests in Angola in the fields of commerce and industry. Could you say exactly in which areas Turkish industrialists are
present in that country?
A.A - The first and major Turkish investment in Angola is the management of the Cassinga ironworks (municipality of Jamba, 315 kilometers east of the city of Lubango, in the province of Huíla), managed by a large Turkish company. The aim is to make it a power in terms of steel exports.
ANGOP - What other economic segments could benefit, in the short and medium term, from your investments?
A.A - I am aware that one of the large companies in Turkey will carry out the electrification of the South and North of Angola. There are also some projects in the field of agriculture. These projects are for large industries.
Another project that we are also studying is in the textile domain. We are not talking about trade, but about joint infrastructure and investment projects. I'm talking about producing something locally. There is also interest, above all, in the field of forests.
ANGOP - After the agreement between Turkish Airlines and TAAG, how do you assess the movement of tourists in both countries?
A.A - Direct flights started in mid-October. I'm not well informed about this deal. The movement of tourists is still not satisfactory. What I was told is that it is expected that, with the opening of these flights, there will be reciprocal visits by Turkish and Angolan citizens.
ANGOP - How many tourists (at all levels) enter Turkey?
A.A - I can say that we have a number of around 850 passengers per month (total flow). It's a number that still doesn't satisfy, because Turkish Airline has only just created its own office. So far, it hasn't made any advertisement.
The aim is to increase that number. Angolans will be able to travel to other countries using Turkish Airline. The Turkish airline is one of those that fly to most destinations in the world.
ANGOP - What are the most transported goods from Turkey to Angola and vice
versa?
A.A - Turkey exports food and other products to Angola, especially wheat, machinery, household appliances, hospital and health supplies, etc. Angola exports wood, ferrous scrap and aluminum to Turkey.
ANGOP - Is the current volume of business between the two countries satisfactory? How far can it go?
A.A - The volume of business between the two countries is insufficient. It is still a number far short of the desired. Currently, that number is around 250 million dollars a year. The goal is to reach one billion annually.
This year, for sure, there will be an increase in business. We must not forget that this increase should happen thanks to the events that have taken place in bilateral relations in recent times.
ANGOP - The 37th edition of the Luanda International Fair (FILDA/2022) took place recently, in which national and foreign exhibitors from 15 countries participated. What comments are you willing to make about the event?
A.A - Unfortunately, this year there was a timid participation of Turkish companies in FILDA. There was no particular reason as to why. We ended up failing in a very important fair, but we will continue to work to participate in a big way in the next editions.
We will also work for a greater participation of Angolan entrepreneurs in fairs in Turkey and we will dedicate a special day to Angola and Turkey.
ANGOP - Earlier you mentioned the August 24 general elections in Angola. What expectations are there from your country regarding this event?
A.A - Angola is my second home, and I will be very honest. Elections are and will always be an important way for society to contribute to a better country. It will continue to be the most viable way for citizens to express their wishes and desires.
Angola and the Angolans have a very long tradition, but as a democratic country it is still very young. I think that, with each election, Angola becomes stronger in terms of its democratization. Turkey and I will always support Angola's efforts in this process and, after the elections; we will continue to show a better country.
We believe that the results will be the voice of the Angolan people, they will always be good and that, from these elections, and Angola will come out stronger and will continue to work for the stability of its region.
I take this opportunity to express my condolences to the Angolan people on the physical passing of the former President of the Republic, José Eduardo dos Santos, who died in July. Certainly, Angola has lost one of the prominent figures in its history, as well as in Africa.
The Interviewee With the status of resident ambassador, Alp Ay has headed the diplomatic mission in Angola for three and a half years.
Worked in the Czech Republic, Sweden, the European Council and the EU General Secretariat. Married with one son, he is a graduate of the Middle East Technical University, Department of International Relations.
He joined the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 1994 and started working at the Department for Central Asian States.
He served in the Turkish Navy and began his diplomatic career in 1997 as third secretary at the Turkish Embassy in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
From 1999 to 2019, he held intermediate and top positions, with emphasis on third and second secretary in his country's diplomatic mission in the Czech Republic; First Secretary and Counselor in the Permanent Mission of Turkey to the European Council.
He was part of the international staff of the Commissioner for Human Rights of the Council of Europe (Thomas Hammarberg of Sweden).
He worked on the country team for Bosnia and Herzegovina, Romania, Bulgaria and Albania on general fields such as discrimination, freedom of belief as well as objection and conscience.
He was head of the Political Affairs Department at the EU General Secretariat, adviser and first adviser at the Turkish Embassy in Stockholm (Sweden), head of the Northern Europe and Baltics Department and responsible for bilateral relations with Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia.
He was Deputy Director-General of International Political Organizations and responsible for the general coordination of Turkey's relations with the UN General Assembly, UN reform, UN budget, international candidacies and elections, Alliance of Civilizations, CPLP, United Nations Fund for Children, OHM, UN OCHA, ICC, humanitarian aid and humanitarian law.
He has been, since 2019, Ambassador of the Republic of Turkey to the Republic of Angola.
